Mother Etheridge

46. Oh people get over yourselves. Those kids are very loved, and all they wanted to do is get out for a little while a grab a pizza. Get a life. Best of luck to Melissa & Tammy.

Posted at 10:16AM on Feb 19th 2007 by Michelle

47. To lovely2- You're right about ONE thing... We're not on the same path. You, unfortunately are on the path to hell and I am trying to warn you. Reguarding your lame comment about "self hatred"... My sins are ALL forgiven because He is my Lord and Savior!!! That Jesus Himself came to earth to teach us about His Father and to heal the sick and raise the dead and then to ultimately suffer and die on the cross in MY place (and whoever will believe) is the greatest miracle that has ever happened! Then He rose from the dead and He will raise us up as well, (His children) to live with Him forever! I am a child of the KING!!! I only wish you could say the same about yourself !

Posted at 12:34PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Jeanie

48. Jeanie, you should take your show on the road. I'd pay good money to see it. Why fork out the big bucks to go see the likes of professional comedians like Eddie Izzard when I can just go throw pennies and rosary beads at you. Bible thumping achieves nothing but a sore wrist. Rather than spending so much time worrying about the life of two strangers and their children, go educate yourself. It would be time well spent.

Just leave them alone.

Posted at 1:51PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Isabella

49. To SA- I actually DO read the Bible, do you? You sure aren't reading the same one as me! Roman 1, vs 26- 27: "Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men comitted indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Go ahead and read vs. 28 : "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, He gave them over to a depraved mind to do what ought not to be done." Keep on reading if you want, it explains why SOME of you get so nasty at people like me just because we agree with God.

Posted at 3:03PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Jeanie

50. Jeanie I hate to tell you but you've been duped! Those are not God's words that you believe in! (I'm just trying to warn you). God is not a man, God is not a being, God is a power source. IT is the positive power through out the universes and the heaven worlds and as such, IT has no voice. People who have claimed to hear the voice of God are in my opinion, NUTS. So following along those lines, my opinion of your story book bible is that it was written by nuts, not God. I choose not to follow the words of close minded nuts and I choose to argue with people like you because, A) I don't agree with YOUR religion B) It's none of your business what I do in my life and who I have sex with. C) Again, it's none of your business what I do in my life and who I have sex with. D) It's also none of your business how women chose to become pregnant or who they choose as a partner to parent with. Just because you choose to follow a make believe tool of the church, it does not give you the right to pass judgement on fellow human beings. I'm sure neither God nor Jesus decided to send you down here to put your nose in others business so stop using them as your excuse. Oh and get over yourself because if you were perfect and beyond reproach yourself, you wouldn't be here. You'd be in the heaven worlds still enjoying your eternal Eden.
Oh and yes, I have read your version of the bible and I'm sorry, when I could actually understand the gibberish it's written in, I ended up laughing at the lunacy of some of their "laws" and teachings.

Now if you can find any other reason as to why Gays shouldn't have the right to have babies and have sex with each other that doesn't come from a book that open minded people don't believe in, then perhaps I'll listen to you.
Until then you can keep to your judgemental and hateful God and I will keep to my warm loving God, you know the one that judges no one and loves all. I'm happy with my God, stop trying to push yours on me and my life style.

One more thing, stop deluding yourself. You and only you are responsible for your sins! No one took them away. They're still there with you waiting to be acknowledged and taken care of. You're in for a big surprise when your day comes and you're hit with a list of all the things you must do penance for. How shocking it will be for you to realise that your crusade to save the Gays got you no where and that God doesn't love you better because of it. How sad that you've spent most of your life thinking so highly of yourself because you thought you were pleasing God by persecuting a portion of IT's people.
No, I think your time is better spent trying to save your own soul. Stop being so lazy and irresponsible by leaving it up to Jesus to take your sins. They're yours. You deal with them.
Now, how does it feel to be told how you should live your life? You see, what I've said to you is what my religion has taught me. I believe in my religion every bit as much as you believe in yours. I bet you don't like me tossing my teachings at you and telling you your wrong now do you? I bet you're surprised that we Gays even believe in God. Imagine that!
In the end, it doesn't matter. There is no hell and heaven doesn't discriminate. All religions, all classes of soul and every living thing created of God, no matter the life they've lived are allowed in heaven. So, I guess I'll be seeing you there. I just hope for your sake, you're ready to accept us by then. Until that time, I wish you a happy and peaceful life.

Posted at 6:02PM on Feb 19th 2007 by SA

51. I am sick and tired of the religious Christian right who pick and choose parts from the Bible to suit their own ends.
They slam gay people as sinners cuz they need scapecoats to get their own congregations in line, all the while we can read one story after the other about some church leader who has been caught cheating on his wife, molesting kids or embezzling funds. Hypocrites I say!
YOU may think being gay is sinful and you are of course entitled to that belief, but it does NOT give you the right to impose that belief on others who do not share YOUR beliefs or value system.

It also galls me no end to read about straight religious parents who kick their kids out of their homes when the kids disclose that they are gay.
Often these kids are left to fend for themselves, forced to a life on the streets in very dangerous situations, deprived of the safety of a home, parental guidance, food, education and health care. A vast majority of these teens are under age.
Parents who in this manner turn their backs on their children ought to be persecuted under the law for child abandonment.

I think the religious right has lot of sins of their own they can address before going after what they consider to be other peoples sins.

To no# 37 Lola. I think Tammy has every right to be upset. I dont think its anybodys fucking business if the Etheridges put their child in a stroller or not.
If your opinion of somebody is based primarely on what they write, then I would have to say that your post paints a very bleak picture of the kind of person that you are.
And yes, not only is Tammy a poet. She is a darn good one as well!
And to SA: Nicely put. :-)

Posted at 6:56PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Glorgn

52. I am sick and tired of the religious Christian right who pick and choose parts from the Bible to suit their own ends.
They slam gay people as sinners cuz they need scapecoats to get their own congregations in line, all the while we can read one story after the other about some church leader who has been caught cheating on his wife, molesting kids or embezzling funds. Hypocrites I say!
YOU may think being gay is sinful and you are of course entitled to that belief, but it does NOT give you the right to impose that belief on others who do not share YOUR beliefs or value system.

It also galls me no end to read about straight religious parents who kick their kids out of their homes when the kids disclose that they are gay.
Often these kids are left to fend for themselves, forced to a life on the streets in very dangerous situations, deprived of the safety of a home, parental guidance, food, education and health care. A vast majority of these teens are under age.
Parents who in this manner turn their backs on their children ought to be persecuted under the law for child abandonment.

I think the religious right has lot of sins of their own they can address before going after what they consider to be other peoples sins.

To no# 37 Lola. I think Tammy has every right to be upset. I dont think its anybodys fucking business if the Etheridges put their child in a stroller or not.
If your opinion of somebody is based primarely on what they write, then I would have to say that your post paints a very bleak picture of the kind of person that you are.
And yes, not only is Tammy a poet. She is a darn good one as well!
And to SA: Nicely put. :-)

Posted at 6:58PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Glorgn

53. Ups, sorry double post

Posted at 7:01PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Glorgn

54. To SA- Wow ! I really can't understand why you got so mad at me. Did you read the previous posts? I said that I am NOT superior to gays or anyone else and that we are ALL sinners and need forgiveness. All I said was that my sins are forgiven because of what Jesus did on the cross for me and anyone else who will believe in Him! Why does that make you so mad?? You say that everyone will be in heaven, no matter the life they've lived... and that there is no hell... Does that mean that Hitler is in heaven, too?? Are you trying to say that there is no such thing as evil people in this world and that they don't have to pay for their sins? You accuse me of being arrogant, but I'm afraid you better take a long look at yourself in that light. I'm humble enough to admit I need a savior, but you say you don't need one. Who's the arrogant one here, anyway??

Posted at 7:39PM on Feb 19th 2007 by Jeanie

55. You misunderstand my intent Jeanie. I'm simply trying to enlighten you to the fact that other people have beliefs that don't agree with yours. If you read my words as angry ones then again, you misunderstood me. I pointed out my issues with your bible, religion and your belief that you have a right to make a moral decision as to what is right and what is wrong for other people. You did more than just say we are all with sin. You quoted the bible and pointed out the fact that gay is wrong and we are going to go to hell unless we are saved. In doing so, you made the appearance that you are better than gays.
You attempt to pass judgement on people because of what your religion teaches you. You believe that we are morally wrong and you speak out against our lifestyle and mentally banish us to hell. But my religion teaches me that my lifestyle is a personal thing for me to live. It does not pass judgement on me. Yes, to answer your question, I believe even Hitler is in heaven. There are many tiers to heaven. He is where he needs to be to learn from his mistakes and his transgressions towards mankind. He is being made accountable for his sins. Most of his misguided ways were due to the fact that he was insane. Something that can be forgiven and worked with to help him to be a good soul again. This is what a truly forgiving God does for IT's creations. IT has set up everything needed to heal broken souls so that they may someday see the light and return to their true home which is a part of the positive power that holds the universes together. A compassionate person would see this way as being good and just versus the intolerable sufferings of hell that the churches created and preach about. What I don't get is how someone who considers themselves saved can pass the same kind of judgement on me that they would Hitler. I have not killed millions of people. I have simply loved and yet you see a problem with that and would banish me to the same kind of punishment you feel Hitler deserves. What may I ask then do you consider yourself saved from because it certainly isn't from everything negative as you still hold what I consider a sin, prejudice, tightly to your bosom. To me, saved is being free of all things negative. I just don't see that with you.
I did not accuse you of being arrogant. I accused you of being too high on yourself because your religion has deluded you into thinking that you have the right to pass judgement on others. I do not see this as arrogance, I see it rather as ignorance. You have also been deluded into thinking that you'll be OK no matter what you say, who you point fingers at and how you present yourself to people you know nothing about because in the end your sins will be simply wiped away because you let Jesus in. Sounds nice but sadly not a reality. You may be forgiven for your sins but you like everyone else will have to work hard to remove them from your life's record before you're allowed to move onto the heaven that the angels rejoice in.
I'm sorry that you feel that bad about yourself that you feel you need a savior. As for me, I'm responsible for my own actions. If I need saving, then it's up to me and no one else to save me. No, I do not need a savior. There's nothing I need saving from. I live my life to the best of my abilities, I love who I can and allow all the others their space in this world to do with it what they feel is right for them. I do not profess to love everyone because that would be a lie. No one person can love every person in existence. We can love mankind, we can love humanity but we can not love every individual on this earth. Something that I see a lot of religious people say without understanding the words they say. "I love everyone". No you do not. It's just not possible. Yet another illusion set up by the churches to make people think more highly of themselves than they actually are. The church depends on this because you are after all their mouth piece out here in the world. It's these kinds of things that I see in bible based religions that keep me from falling into the churches trap. I am a free soul. The Laws of Spirituality give me that right. I do what I please in my life and am answerable to only me as I'm the one who has to live with my own consequences. I'm OK with that.
If I understand your intent correctly, you strive to live in certain ways, as Jesus did. You strive to save souls from damnation. Well Jesus took on the sins of others in an attempt to save them as the church teaches and you believe. Are you willing to do the same? If I was willing to let you "save" my soul, would you be willing to take on my sins? If you're going to talk the talk of salvation then you must be willing to take on all the aspects attributed to it. Simply pointing a person in the direction of Jesus does not absolve you of your responsibilities of that person you led to that particular path. In some civilizations it is believed that if you save a person, you are responsible for them for life. I feel the same should hold true for all religious people bent on saving others. Do you want that kind of responsibility and are you capable of accepting it?
You are solely responsible for you in this world. It is your responsibility to leave others be and let them live their lives as they see fit. It is not your right and never will be, to take people away from their own learning experiences. In other words, nothing gives you the right to try and save another's soul unless they ask it from you. Please stop thinking you can do this without the other person's permission. When you go preaching your religion and being negative towards others because they are in your opinion "with sin" without asking first if these people want your religions style of saving then yes, you are overstepping your bounds and invading another's spiritual space. You have no right. This is what my religion teaches.
Again, I am not angry, I am just trying to enlighten you. I am doing so with your permission as you have asked me questions and kept the discussion between us open. If you chose to remove this permission then you can do so by asking no more from me. I wish you peace.

Posted at 10:04PM on Feb 19th 2007 by SA

56. Jeanie....SA is kicking your butt......the more you say, the more stupid you are!!! Stop ALREADY!!!!

Posted at 10:57PM on Feb 19th 2007 by cr

57. I am well aware that other people have beliefs that don't agree with mine. I wasn't born yesterday and I don't need you to "enlighten" me about that. I quoted the Bible because I believe in what the Bible teaches as the Word of God. You accused me of not reading the Bible and I told you that I DO read the Bible and what I read in the Bible. If you don't like what the Bible teaches, take it up with God... not me. I didn't write it, but I certainly believe in it. I noticed that you didn't even try to interpret for yourself what those passages mean. Instead you try and brush them off and say that mere men wrote them and not God. You can't have it BOTH ways by first saying what you think the Bible teaches and then saying that you don't beleve in the Bible. Well, which is it ?? Do you believe in the Bible or not ?? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth ! !

You believe that God is an IT and I believe that God is a person. It's interesting how safe God can seem to be if He is a mere IT or thing, isn't it ?? A thing doesn't make demands on you or hold you to a standard, does it ?? My Bible teaches that God is a PERSON who loves us and offers us forgiveness IF we repent of our sins (which I have, by the way) and believe in His SON who died on the cross IN OUR PLACE. Just WHY do you suppose Jesus suffered being beaten and tortured and nailed to the cross, anyway ?? What exactly was He saving us from, if there is no such thing as Hell ???

I am not pointing my finger at you and being "holier than thou" as someone has said. I am simply WARNING you that you need to repent of sin just as much as I or anyone else does and recieve the salvation offered by Jesus. YOU are the one who is delusional, I'm sorry to say. You think you can earn your own forgiveness and a place in heaven. I ask you again, just WHY do you suppose that Jesus endured the pain and torture of the cross if that is even possible ??

Love is not merely a feeling. It is doing and saying the right thing to someone whether you FEEL like it or not. That is something most people know nothing about. I am sure that Jesus didn't FEEL like going to the cross and suffering the pain that He did for our sakes but He did it, anyway. Yes, you can love people without necessarily FEELING love for them and as Christians, we do. I can say that I do love gays because I don't want you to go to hell when you die, so I warned you.

Posted at 2:15AM on Feb 20th 2007 by Jeanie

58. I dont believe in heaven and hell as places we go to. They are spiritual conditions. Heaven being close to God and hell being far from God.
I do however believe in a life after this one, a spiritual life where our souls keep progressing towards God, and yes I do believe that we are called to account for our sins when we die, but love is never a sin, even loving somebody of the same sex in my book.
I believe God is way beyond the reach and keen of humankind. I dont believe God is a person or an It. God is the Unknowable Essence, but if people feel most comfortable labeling that Essence with something more familiar, no problem.
I dont see a contradiction at all in SA referring to God as an IT and Jeanie to God as a PERSON.
Christians do not have a monopoly on the truth. The Bible is not the only holy book in the world. There are others. The spiritual foundation of every religion is the same. They all speak of God or a devine source of power in the Universe and they all speak of love.
Not just physical love between people, but love in its most basic form. Love is what keeps the Universe, the atoms together. Love is the attraction between them.
What makes religious appear different are the social teachings that have accompanied each new religion, specifically catered to the day and era in which that new religion was revealed. There is no wrong religion. There are many roads to the truth.

Darkness decends when fanatisizm takes hold and people convince themselves and others that they hold the only truth possible. It doesnt matter what religion or belief structure they adhere too.
Fanatics are all the same. Narrowminded, bigoted and full of hate towards anybody and everybody who does not adhere to their brand of belief.

Posted at 4:02AM on Feb 20th 2007 by Glorgn

59. I apologise if this becomes a double post but I did not receive a confirmation for the first time I posted it.

RE: Jeanie


You don't need my enlightenment. I don't need you to warn me or save me. At least this is something we should be able to agree on.

The bible I was referring to is the Old Testament, the bible before the revised New testament. You know, the original bible that had many passages stripped from it to make the New Testament easier for the Churches to manipulate their followers with. Trouble is, the sequel is never as good as the original, in movies or in story books.

Why should I not take up my issues with you? You're the one quoting the bible, not God. Until God tells me directly that "he" wrote the bible or spoke the words in the bible, then I will continue to believe that mere men wrote the bible and they did so as a way to control people, their thoughts and their actions. But I know that God is not going to speak to me because as I've said, I believe God is IT. Pure energy and love. A love that you could never understand because all you know is the controlling love. Though IT is love, IT does not control. IT allows us to be free to make our own choices in life. We learn and grow through our experiences and our decisions. This is the way it is meant to be. This is a design with a purpose. The purpose is so that we can learn and grow and become a part again of what we came from.

I'm really not sure where you see that I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I pointed out what I feel are flaws in what your bible teaches. I've said, I feel, many times that I do not agree with your bible and that it's simply a story book. So no, I do not agree with your bible and what it teaches. I do not believe it to be based in truth.
As far as those passages, yes, I did interpret their meaning. Still means nothing to me as the Higher Power I have to answer to did not say them.

To quote you:
"It's interesting how safe God can seem to be if He is a mere IT or thing, isn't it ?? "
Shouldn't God be safe? Shouldn't God be something or in your case someone to be looked up to and loved not feared? I should fear that which I'm trying to return to? Where is the sense in that?
Why should a positive energy make demands on anyone. It is positive, demand is a negative. True positive can know no negative. It would hurt itself if it did. It is my responsibility to hold myself to any kind of standard. So long as I live my life to the best of my abilities. Love those that I need/choose to love, have compassion for all and do not hurt others along the way, that is truly the only standard I feel I need to meet. These are the standards I feel is all that is asked of us. Not demanded, asked. This does not mean that we have to meet them if we chose not to. BUT if we don't meet them, then we suffer the consequences. I do not believe in Hell so Hell can never be one of the consequences. It's really quite simple. We are here to learn, experience and grow. Having our freedoms of choice stripped from us really stifles that process. This is why I believe there can be no demands. To demand is to control. Control is a negative power. People are stifled when ruled by a negative power. It becomes very hard to see the light when one must live under the cloud of gloom and doom. "Do as I say or you go to Hell." Where's the compassion in that?

Jesus and the cross. Hmmm, should I tell you this? Oh, why not...I'm one of those people who don't believe Jesus died on the cross. I believe another man took his place. One of his devoted followers. I believe Jesus married, had children and lived a long and fruitful life. But don't worry, you'll still get to see him in heaven. You see that is his penance for allowing a religion to be spawned in his name and for allowing the people to make him Lord and savior. He now has to reside in the heaven worlds until the very last believer passes through. He can not return to this earthly existence until then. He can not live again, learn again, experience again until he has greeted the last of the believers and shows them the truths that the churches took away when they went away from his original message to follow the teachings of other men instead. (By other men, I mean the ones who rewrote the original bible.)

You say sin. I say karma. Kind of similar but the word sin turns too much the negative and can leave a person with a sense of hopelessness unless of course they have someone else they can dump it off on. I prefer karma. There is good karma and bad karma. Bad karma is something we can learn from. It is something that we can turn to a positive if we learn the lesson brought by it, forgive ourselves make amends to those affected by it and move on. We have the ability to give ourselves absolution. This is given to us so that we can free ourselves of that which holds us down and holds us back so that we may be able to move forward again in a more positive direction. We can do this even without the use of a Rosary. It's all about self responsibility.

Earn my spot in heaven? I do not need to "earn" a spot. I will always have a place in heaven. As a spec of the IT, heaven is where I go to in between lifetimes. Heaven is my true home. Heaven is every one's true home. From whence we came, so too shall we return. One of the few truths that hasn't been tampered with yet.

I quote you again:
"Love is not merely a feeling. It is doing and saying the right thing to someone whether you FEEL like it or not. That is something most people know nothing about."
I say to you that you yourself know nothing about love. Love is not something to be used to control another. Love is unconditional. It asks for nothing in return. It is pure and without negative influences. It does not seek to change a person's way of living or believing or being. Love lets a person be who that person needs to be. Love is about knowing that each individual has a right to be exactly what they need to be. If a person is flawed, so be it. They will learn because of those flaws. Love lets them have those flaws because love knows the truth that flaws become that which makes the person whole. From this wholeness, they can achieve goodness. That is love in the sense the we should see love. That is the love that we should offer each other everyday. I love you enough to let you be and not try to force my beliefs or influences apon you or the path that you walk. Go in peace and go with the God of your choosing. That is love.
Your love seeks to control by fear. You say, "I love you enough to warn you that you will go to hell if you don't repent." That is a fear tactic, that is not love. If you truly know love and trust in love then you also understand that you have no reason to be the heralder of doom. Love is not an emotion, it is an energy. To put emotion to love only weakens it. Emotion is for the physical world. Love derives from the spiritual, from IT. Emotion can not exist in the Spiritual worlds because it is not born of the spiritual. It is something created for the physical and lower worlds only.
Real love says I set you free to do as you will and I trust in the Power that is that you shall be safe and you shall find your own way. No fear filled warnings, just a good positive energy to help carry the person to where they need to be. But don't worry if you don't recognise this type of love yet because it always recognises you.

Trust in the Love and the Light. It shines on all in this world. IT takes care of IT's own and truly needs no help from anyone. We all go towards the light in our own fashion and in our own way. Love true and let people be. This is the fastest way back home.

Posted at 12:57PM on Feb 20th 2007 by SA

60. I need to add an correction to my last post. I used to think that another took his place because I always believed that Jesus survived to a ripe old age. I never did believe that silly story that he rose from the dead and walk the earth telling peopled he'd be back. Lately I've come across information that suggests a different set of circumstances.
I actually now believe that Jesus made it to the cross. But he did not die there. When he was pulled from the cross he was still alive. They (his friends)took him, treated him and made him well again. He did not "rise" again as he was never dead in the first place. What he did do was to go into hiding and to trust in his apostles to continue spreading his message. In other words, he became a martyr in order to get the people to listen to his message and believe in him. Thus creating a religion that would have him exalted Lord and savior, King to his followers. The Spiritual Masters who had trained him solely for the purpose of bringing a message to the earth but NOT make himself a God, were not pleased. So now he sits and does his penance. He will remain in the heaven designed for Christians so that he may greet them and set the record straight. He was not born a God, he just allowed the people to make him one.
This is what I believe. If it is a truth, then one day it will be shown to all. The truth is stronger than a lie and can not remain buried forever.

Posted at 1:54PM on Feb 20th 2007 by SA