DNA Test About to Happen

4291. Hi RJ,

In reading your comments, I must ask, have you been following all elements of this case? I've only recently seen your posts here on this thread.

You wrote the following, and I'll intersperse my comments preceded by **:

If we took your comments as fact and answer to resolve who the father of a child should be, then we would have hundreds of thousands of people being forced to give children, or allow the males ,who impregnate the mothers, to obtain custody of the children.

** If you have 30 years of experience as a child protection officer for social services in some US state, then you should know that every day courts give custody of children to men who merely impregnated a woman. Of course it's because the men want custody, that's how it gets into court.

** Many men do not know that they've fathered a child, but that doesn't mean that they want to be cut out of the lives of their children. In ANS' case she was seeking to live in a jurisdiction that would give her more power to cut the bio father out of the child's life. She had to move to another country to do that because the laws of US states did not suit her.


DNA tests have a part to play, but they are not a definitive answer, to who should raise a child with a mother, or solely on there own. Putting it crudely, a donor of sperm, does not necessarily , make a father.

** Actually a 'donor of sperm' is the father. What you are talking about is who should be the one to raise the child,'father' in that sense.

If the law worked on the basis you suggest as the law, then rapists would have rights to be the fathers of the women they impregnated.

** The rapist would have to go to court and petition for custody. If you have 30 years of experience I think you know that does not happen, and if it did, the rapist's presumed conviction for rape would be taken into account by the court, and no court I have ever heard of the US has given custody, or even visitation, to a convicted rapist. Note, I'm being precise in that definition, because there are cases where a 19 year old male "raped" his 15 year old girlfriend, got her pregnant, and then years later sought custody of their minor child. (I'm talking about statutory rape.)

These comments are not meant to be offensive, only to highlight certain facts omitted by the legal eagle.

**What were the facts that I omitted? I think I did a good job in my posts, and I'll make a prediction for you RJ. Birkhead is the likely father, that should be determined in a few days, then the Bahamian court will hear the custody issue. I predict that barring some negative evidence about Birkhead, the judge will rule in his favor and the child Danielynn will go home with him to CA. If for some reason some negative information about him is presented, the child will be awarded to grandmother Virgie Arthur. The child will return to TX.

Stern may continue his battle for custody, but he will have to come to the US to do it. For reasons many on this blog already know, he does not want to do that.

Child liaison /protection officer. Social services .RJ


Posted at 8:11PM on Mar 20th 2007 by R,J

Posted at 5:25AM on Mar 21st 2007 by LegalEagle

4292. Just a few comments on some of the ideas expressed here.

There is absolutely no evidence that Anna had any intimacy with Howard! Only Howard said so.. and the 'ceremony' took place after Daniel died - when Anna was grief stricken - I would put my money on it that the last thing on here mind was to have sexual relations with anyone!!!

Anna was in an interview ( I think with Greta) that this guy was her Attorney who became were best friend, in fact she even said that at that time she was actively looking for someone (other than dear 'Howie'). Call her what you will, but she had enough sense (even in a drug induced state) to draw the line some place!!!

I understand that the swab will be done on Danielynn ONLY. So that Mr Stern is hedging his bet that just in the event Larry isn't the father, he will still be able to maintain possession of this sweet little baby.

Wonder what the arguments were in court yesterday when confronted with the DNA expert?

"....Your Lordship my client is the father of record and is therefore under no obligation to prove anything to anyone... let them prove I'm not the real father...."

Vergie apparently has a back up plan - heard she's set up residence in the Bahamas - in a 'MANSION' no less, complete with a NANNY!!

Posted at 8:22AM on Apr 2nd 2007 by Indie

4293. I hope Larry Birkhead is not the father. He is too cocky and arrogant and has no class at all...sheesh he is signing autographs...how retarded and doesn't look like a grieving boyfriend to me.. Vergie doesn't deserve to be part of Dannielynn's life. Her track record speaks for herself and sees dollar signs. I hope that Howard gets custody of Dannielynn, biological father or not. Anna had him listed on the birth certificate...he was with her for the birth...you can see it on Utube.com. He has been with Anna for 10 years through thick and thin. When she died, her wedding dress was being in the process of being made. I do however believe there is more to Anna's death than any of us know. I think she knew she was dying. Lupus, which affects your autoimmune system can explain why her body gave out. With a 105 degree fever, that spells infection....perhaps pneumonia. Also Anna was known to have seizures. She might have had Aids...that was a definite possibility since she was bisexual. I just think there is more to the story than what the picture the media is painting. Dannielynn is safe, and is bonded to Howard and her nanny who was a mother figure to Anna. Leave these people alone and let them heal and move on with their life. Let the circus acts go back to California and Texas, respectively.

Posted at 10:33AM on Mar 21st 2007 by Lynne Richards

4294. Legal eagle 4371/4373

I read your comments with interest. I am not in a position to judge who should raise the child, my point was this. A DNA test does not prove a person is fit to raise a child, and I was attempting to say Biological fathers and mothers are one thing , being a Parent is another, ultimately the Childs welfare is paramount. Yes : I do not disagree with the majority of your comments, and only covered valid facts that you had not included in you posted message.

The comment about a rapist being able to be father, was meant to draw attention to the validity of DNA tests when attempting to say who the father is or should be. This is why I used the term donor of sperm. It was a extreme comment, but only to emphasize a fact. but as you have acknowledged yourself , with the 19 year old male and 15 year old female, it happens.

I do not profess to have the answers, but my understanding is the child is a citizen by birth , and currently resides in the Bahamas, so the jurisdiction at present falls under Bahamian law. My other points were both males claiming to be the biological father (donor of sperm) were both aware of the mothers drug problems, yet it appears and (I say appears ) did not peruse in a vigorously to protect the un-born child. Both knew there would be possible adverse effects on the un-born child, this does call into question, who should raise the child as the parent. I’m not sure of the following comment: but it has been reported ANS, had a miscarriage, and Mr Birkhead was supposed to have been the person who impregnated her, if true then , it does question the responsibilities of the gentleman, seeking to have a child with ANS knowing her problem with drugs, and possible effects to a un-born child. It could be this happened on more than one occasion, if she did in actual fact have a miscarriage.

I do believe as you state, you covered most things in your bog, but you did omit certain facts on DNA tests and there place in how to determine who should be the parent.. You refer to California Law a few times, I understand your reasons, but with the child being a Bahamian citizen, it does not follow that Californian Law has jurisdiction on the child.

I am perplexed why Mr Birkhead did not seek to the paternity issue and DNA through the Bahamian courts when the child was born. In my opinion is attorneys, did not give him the correct and best advice, but that is my opinion and I am not conversant with all the legalities.

I would not infer nor have I ,that either person Stern /Birkhead are guilty of a criminal actions. Every State has different Laws, but ultimately the Medical Practitioners involved with prescribing drugs, must take responsibility for there actions, led to the death of this woman by foul means.

I hope I have clarified points you raised, none were meant to be offensive. I do not think it right to comment of your prediction, only to say everybody should have the right of innocence , where there as been a death, until proven guilty.

RJ

Posted at 11:49AM on Mar 21st 2007 by R.J

4295. it's hard to believe that anyone can believe that HK$ should keep the baby! Not only was he Anna's attorney but he NEVER tried to get her to stop the drugs! HE JUST DID THE CAMERA WORK!
HK$ supposedly is bonding to the baby but that shouldn't make a difference after all judges have removed babies after one and two years from Adoptive Parents!
I get the impression that Anna used people for what she wanted-she had no morals! Jena

Posted at 11:36AM on Mar 22nd 2007 by jean phillips

4296. Anna must of wanted Howard to be the father or he would not be listed as her father. It doesn't take the one to make a baby be the father,that has to come in the heart and love,I think if Anna didn't want Howard to be the father she would of done it all different. wake up and smell the coffee. and let her wishes be the way she wanted them. And let her rest in peace, All money should go in a trust fund for the baby. See how fast people back off then.

Posted at 1:46PM on Mar 21st 2007 by g.miller

4297. #4374 I think Larry signing autographs is a little weird, but I guarantee yoou if Coward
was not in the trouble he is in now and he had screaming people asking him for
an autograph, he too would be signing autographs.

Posted at 2:08PM on Mar 21st 2007 by angela

4298. Amendments to 4375.
I would not infer nor have I ,that either person Stern /Birkhead are guilty of a criminal actions. Every State has different Laws, but ultimately the Medical Practitioners involved with prescribing drugs, must take responsibility for there actions, *if they led to the death of this woman by foul means.*

Posted at 1:51PM on Mar 21st 2007 by R.J

4299. They got the DNA today,however it hasto come to the US for testing, and they say it won't be known for 24 hrs., then it's sealed til April 3rd. Talk about knowning how to drag things out...

Posted at 2:28PM on Mar 21st 2007 by colette

4300. To Teresa #1420 March 21st @ 3:22A.M. --------------------------You self-rightous Nut Job. "You need to get a life!"---------------------------------I haven't got a clue who you're talking about,"For people considering calling the Bahamian C.P.S. because they're concerned about a child they don't know?" Apparently you have spent more time pouring over those comments then I have because I saw your letter and a few other's but I never saw anything that you're referring to, but usually when something so tragic happens it's normal for people with a heart to care what happens to someone whether they personally know them or not and everyone generally has strong feelings and thoughts and opinions and that is one thing the comment board is about. If you can't handle what people are saying, remember you don't know the real, factual information of how much another person knows because you don't know them, so just stay off the board because I really don't give a rats ass that you're a giant hypocrit that gets your jollies off by coming on these boards and trashing people who choose to exercise their right to write or read any comments they'd like to. But hey, whatever gets your lonely, fat, bitchass off. And remember, you're not qualified to judge anyone,, nor do you have the right to.(Because then you'd be the one making a fool of yourself!!!!

Posted at 10:54PM on Mar 21st 2007 by Lisa Marie Wiliams

4301. To Teresa #1420 March 21st @ 3:22A.M. --------------------------You self-rightous Nut Job. "You need to get a life!"---------------------------------I haven't got a clue who you're talking about,"For people considering calling the Bahamian C.P.S. because they're concerned about a child they don't know?" Apparently you have spent more time pouring over those comments then I have because I saw your letter and a few other's but I never saw anything that you're referring to, but usually when something so tragic happens it's normal for people with a heart to care what happens to someone whether they personally know them or not and everyone generally has strong feelings and thoughts and opinions and that is one thing the comment board is about. If you can't handle what people are saying, remember you don't know the real, factual information of how much another person knows because you don't know them, so just stay off the board because I really don't give a rats ass that you're a giant hypocrit that gets your jollies off by coming on these boards and trashing people who choose to exercise their right to write or read any comments they'd like to. But hey, whatever gets your lonely, fat, bitchass off. And remember, you're not qualified to judge anyone,, nor do you have the right to.(Because then you'd be the one making a fool of yourself!!!!

Posted at 8:57PM on Mar 28th 2007 by Lisa Marie Wiliams

4302. Hi RJ,

Let me try this one more time. Custody cases always start with biology; if in your 30 years of experience you disagree, please let us know what state you are in? In Virginia the presumption is always in favor of the biological parent. You have to work hard and mount a good case to show a biological parent is less fit than anyone else. I've seen cases where a poor mother gets custody because the psychological needs of the children and their age mean more than the fact that the father is wealthy and can hire a nanny.

Is that not your experience?

We are talking about biology because it is in question. ANS and Birkhead were not married. Stern and ANS were not married. She was an unmarried woman who according to reports many of us have been following first tried to claim G. Ben Thompson was the father. When he insisted he had had a vasectomy and couldn't be the father, she stopped claiming he was the father.

Reports many of us have followed and testimony under oath by Birkhead is that for the first 5 months of the pregnancy ANS told Birkhead he was the father; they attended doctor's visits together, he went with her to the ultrasound, etc.

Then in May 2006 ANS won her case in the Supreme Court and the potential for a windfall of up to $474 million was on the table. ANS cut Birkhead off, moved to the Bahamas, and applied for permanent residency there because their laws favored an woman as far as being able to name a father simply by putting a name on the birth certificate.

More information for you: Danielynn is not a Bahamian citizen. She may apply for citizenship at age 18. Right now the birth certificate is being challenged and shortly ANS' permanent residency will be challenged. Under Bahamian law she needed to be a property owner of over $500,000 to get residency, and the property she claimed, Horizons, is now being reclaimed by the owner, G. Ben Thompson. She tried to argue that he gave her a $900,000 house as a "gift."

So everything up to this point related to Bahamian law has hung by some very, very thin threads.

In my experience if an unmarried woman tries to sue a man for child support, the first thing that happens is a DNA test to determine paternity.

If a man says, "that's my kid, and I have a great job, she's unemployed, I'd be the father" the first thing that happens is a DNA test to determine paternity.

If two 21 year olds live together and then have a fight, he moves out, but unknown to him she gets pregnant, then later dies, what do you think happens? I'll spice this up. Suppose after boyfriend #1, father of the child, finds out 3 years later that his former girlfriend had a baby. She's dead, and boyfriend #2 has been taking care of the child, loving the child, and providing for it adequately. Boyfriend #1 just started a new job and only rents a small apartment.

Guess who gets that child, assuming boyfriend #1 (like Birkhead) wants that child? Boyfriend #1.

Biology is the FIRST hurdle, RJ. Again, what state are you? I'd really like to know ...

Posted at 8:16PM on Mar 21st 2007 by LegalEagle

4303. http://whathappenedanna.com

Posted at 9:03PM on Mar 21st 2007 by smoochie

4304. My comments are very simple legal eagle, DNA does is not the only answer to who should raise the child as a parent. I can not comment on who should have custody of the child, and nor have I.
I have tried to explain that both males involved have not shown responsibility to pursue the issue of a un-born childs welfare if the mother to-be ,was taking drugs that could have effected the un-born childs welfare/health. This should have been acted upon by all parties involved, including medical practitioners.

Welfare of the un-born child paramount!!!!

The biology of who is the donor of sperm, (ie) father by DNA, does not necessarily mean that person is going to be the best parent to raise the child. That was my point legal eagle. Lets just say for one moment Mr Stern is the biological father, forget all the hysteria surrounding this case, would you say he his the right person to raise the child ?

Where is the child domiciled ? What are the laws pertaining to the domicile of the child?
Perhaps you know these answers?

My experience is to protect the child and to make sure the child is brought up and cared for in an environment with a parent who can raise the child. Key facts pertaining to want to be parents in reports, put before a judge /family court, are numerous and would take several hours to list.

With regard the State, I am not being evasive, but it makes no difference at this time.Hopefully you now know.

I am bewildered that Mr Birkhead did not present to the courts in the Bahamas, when the child was born in September. The legal representation he received, must have been woefully inadequate at that time. R,J

Posted at 9:13PM on Mar 21st 2007 by R,J

4305. Jane Doe:

"Go Vergie?????? Why would anyone want the baby to go with Vergie, when her own son is in a wheel chair because of her service revolver."
=====

CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!

Posted at 4:41PM on Mar 22nd 2007 by Elaine