Graziano Fam: You're Not the Victim, Hulk!

346. You're making a lot of sense, applesauce.

I agree with you, and I'll repeat in my own words what you wrote, in order to possibly help even more people to understand ...

It doesn't matter whether John was or wasn't drunk; it doesn't matter whether or not he might have been egging Nick on; it doesn't matter whether he had his seatbelt on or not; it wouldn't even matter if John told Nick that he wanted to commit suicide and begged him to slam into the palm tree.

What DOES matter is that Nick was the driver AND THE DRIVER IS LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE. It's Nick's responsibility to make sure that his passenger is wearing a seat belt. If the passenger refused to do so, THIS DOES NOT ELIMINATE OR LOWER THE NICK'S LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Nick is in jail now BECAUSE HE'S LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCIDENT.

The issue of whether Nick's parents also share responsibility due to the fact that Nick is a minor is a different question that I don't want to get into here, since I believe that it's a grey area.

But Nick's legal responsiblity for the consequences of the accident is not in a legal grey area. Again, I will repeat that AS THE DRIVER, NICK IS LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE ACTIONS OR NON-ACTIONS OF HIS PASSENGER.

This might not seem fair to some of you, but it's the law.

Posted at 6:50PM on Jun 20th 2008 by zmt

347. I agree with Mayu (i think it was post #73). Nick was 17 and John was 24... nuf said!

The Graziano family will probably sue the Bollea/Hogan family, but just because they know it'll probably be settled out of court and they'll get a sizeable wad of cash. It still won't change the bad decisions that were made by both of these young men and what has happenned. DON'T BE GREEDY!!!

LawDog wants to know what will happen to Nick if John dies... nothing else will happen because he's already been convicted for the "crime". You can't be tried twice for the same thing. I hope your screen name doesn't state what you do for a living.

Posted at 7:41PM on Jun 20th 2008 by Vicki in SoCal

348. I love you Hogan family. Stay strong and this will pass. We all love you and wish well for all involved.

Posted at 9:17PM on Jun 20th 2008 by Candice

349. bunni, if you don't like 'debating' with me, then don't bring my name into your posts are suggesting i'm misinformed or basing my facts on celebrity sites...i'm a lot smarter than you think...and YES, i read the entire police report. but you still haven't answered my question: how could john remain in his seat the whole time and not be buckled in?? the police and everyone found john's seat belt not buckled when they arrived on scene...we all agree on that...and we also agree that nick's lawyers wouldn't let the police immediately search the car once it was impounded, we all agree on that...well, why? why couldn't they do a search righ away? if nick's got nothing to hide, why delay it? and AGAIN, for the 5 billionth time, just because i ask questions doesn't mean i'm misinformed or filled with such hatred against the hogans, it means i'm looking at both sides of the story. and the hogans lack of compassion for john all this time and the fact that nick's story changed twice in 1 week, tells me something isn't right. and again, keep saying john didn't have any common sense and shouldn't have gotten in the car, etc. it's easy to be an armchair quarterback to a game that happened a year ago, but facts are facts. nick's blood alcohol content indicated that he took his last drink HOURS before the crash, and the fact that nick drove ok up until he was speeding, meant that maybe john didn't see any red flags. but nick was the driver, he was speeding *obviously very fast for the car to flip upside down*, he was drunk and not only that, but changed his story more than once. THAT'S why i don't believe him...there's no way john could remain in his seat the whole time and not be buckled in, and i don't care how many times you keep pounding your 'facts' only a seat belt can restrain you, and john was restrained the whole time.

Posted at 10:36PM on Jun 20th 2008 by carol

350. and again, john didn't give nick the booze, if that were the case, why didn't the hogan lawyer pound this lie into the american media when he gave his press conference? and again bunni, i don't know HOW someone unbuckled john, but that's my theory. what i think might have happened, (since nick's injuries were less severe and he was actually back on the racing track not too long after) nick looked over at john and panicked. everyone @ the scene said john looked like he was dead and that his head was bleeding profusely. i think nick realized how much trouble he was in and simply unbuckled john's seat belt. witnesses say they saw nick moving slightly in the car so that tells me he was gaining consciousness and wasn't pinned so tightly. and also about the part of him being 'inebriated' @ the scene, the fact nick's last drink was a few hours before the crash and that he obviously drove ok, up until they reached their racing destination tells me nick still had a few active brain cells. and the fact hulk lied on larry king about them not racing...LMAO!! how could the car be totalled like that driving to a 'restaurant'?? also why would nick change his story? that's what i don't understand...so bunni, we're in agreement, nick changed his story more than once? why?

Posted at 10:51PM on Jun 20th 2008 by carol

351. To Vicki in So Cal

Nick was DRIVING. John was NOT DRIVING. I don't know how things work in So Cal but here in Florida if you are DRIVING you are RESPONSIBLE for those in your car. It does not matter how old the passengers are, they have NO CONTROL OVER THE CAR.

Great defense. "Ah your honor he knew I was a bad driver. It was his fault for getting in my car so I should get off scott free and not have to pay a penny even though I was street racing, while under the influence on wet roads after having gotten 4 tickets in less than a year. It's his fault for being in the car. The fact that I was the one behind the wheel is irrelevant." Brilliant. Clarence Darrow at his finest.

The age thing..... if he ain't old enough to do the time and accept the civil penalties he should not be driving AT ALL. He agreed and his loving father signed that he was responsible enough to drive so guess what.... 17 ain't no excuse. You want the privledge you have RESPONSIBILITY to drive safely. He cannot now claim he was not mature enough to appreciate the consequenceses of his actions after the fact. Bringing up their ages is IRRELEVANT to the facts of the case. If Nick is not old enough to be responsible for his actions he is not old enough to be driving. He can't be driving but say "whatever happens I am not mature enough to be held responsible for but my Dad is real proud that I am a "precision driver" and that is how I make my living".

Posted at 11:11PM on Jun 22nd 2008 by britta

352. 346. ...

LawDog wants to know what will happen to Nick if John dies... nothing else will happen because he's already been convicted for the "crime". You can't be tried twice for the same thing. I hope your screen name doesn't state what you do for a living.

Posted at 7:41PM on Jun 20th 2008 by Vicki in SoCal

You need to review double jeopardy, Vicki. Here's a quote from WIkipedia (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy ) and a legal reference which explain that a person can indeed be retried for a separate offense related to the same act:

> Double jeopardy is also not implicated for separate offenses or in separate jurisdictions arising
> from the same act. For example, in United States v. Felix (1992)[*], the Supreme Court ruled
> 'a[n]...offense and a conspiracy to commit that offense are not the same offense for double
> jeopardy purposes.'
[*] http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=503&invol=378

Nick is in jail on the charges of Felony Reckless Driving. If John dies, the charge of something like Vehicular Manslaughter could then be filed against him. These are two separate offenses, and it appears that Nick could indeed be tried again, this time on the manslaughter charge.

Posted at 8:47AM on Jun 21st 2008 by zmt

353. Dear Carol- I appreciate what you are saying for sure however I read the police report to the end & no where does it say the car flipped. It does say the car did a 180 and jumped the median & was crushed upon impact when it hit the tree. Not one witness (and there are pleny-including the Hogans' mechanic who just happened to pass & saw Nick racing that day from light to light at a high rate of speed) It also says that when the 1st officer or EMT came upon the scene that John was slumped forward between the dash & the passenger door. Now in the hospital report someone posted about a month ago in one of these threads, it said that John had bruising consistent with that of someone who was wearing a seatbelt at the time of impact-so who knows? Let's stop debating the seatbelt issue as I think when the civil suit filed in March is settled, we're going to see it is something of a non-issue. Hopefully, a nice trust will be set up for John (not his parents!!) for his care after he leaves the V.A. hospital & has to spend the rest of his days in a nursing home type facility.

http://www.artharris.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/nick-bollea-clearwater-police-report1.pdf

Posted at 10:49AM on Jun 21st 2008 by applesauce

354. ZMT-yes!! I am thinking in terms of what the law dictates & not letting emotions factor in the mix.

Posted at 11:59AM on Jun 21st 2008 by applesauce

355. Here is the contact information for VH1. Please write to them and explain to them why airing anymore Hogan programming is disgusting and wrong. Do your part. Boycott them.


Toni Herron
(212) 846-7528
toni.herron@vh1staff.com

• Brett Henne
Vice President of VH1 Communications
(212) 846-6752
brett.henne@vh1staff.com
• Scott Acord
Sr. Director, VH1 Communications
(310) 752-8075
scott.acord@vh1staff.com

This is the company that produced Hogan knows best and Brooke knows best and that Hulk asked Nick if he wanted them to produce his straight out of jail real-ity show;

Pink Sneakers Productions
1000 Colour Place, Apopka, FL 32703
Phone: 407-464-2080
Fax: 407-464-2081

Posted at 5:11PM on Jun 21st 2008 by Boycott Hogan

356. i'll stop debating the 'seat belt' crap until someone can prove to me and to everyone else john had his seatbelt off the whole time and how could he remain in his seat the entire time and not move around without a seat belt on. so did he just hang on for dear luck? and i'm one of the people who said that i read something about john having seat belt bruising on his body, but his injuries were so severe, that there was not a 100% determination. i read this right after the crash, but i didn't give much attn. to it.

here's my source on mtv.com the very next day of the crash *or not too long afterwards* and there's a pic of the car...look at the roof! and all you 'seat belt' naysayers are saying john's whole head and neck wouldn't have been crushed since he 'didn't wear a seatbelt?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1567834/20070824/system_of_a_down.jhtml

Posted at 9:38AM on Jun 22nd 2008 by carol

357. Pink Sneakers is in Apopka???

That explains alot.

Posted at 11:34PM on Jun 22nd 2008 by Brunette

358. Nick WAS DRIVING AND DRINKING my heart goes out to John and his family look at what Nick is trying to pull HOUSE ARREST give me a break 8 MONTHS is nothing compared to what John will be going through for the rest of his life HOGANS NEED TO GROW UP it is not about them do the right thing and quit saying stupid things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted at 1:08AM on Jun 23rd 2008 by sick of the crying for Nick

359. Oh carol.....................I'm not debating with you, I'm correcting you. You can't debate facts.
As an answer for why the car looked like it did in the MTV linked you posted...............um................carol................that picture was taken AFTER they cut part of the windshield and car roof to extract the occupants of the car.
Did you get the link to non seatbelt wearer ejection statistics? Did you see the 44%? That would mean that John had a 54% chance of remaining in the car. If my math is right 52 is higher than 44. Plus, that 44% was counting both partial ejection or total ejection. Also, since I left my CSI equipment in my other pants I can't really give you the equation requarding the speed and forces of the crash with the direction of movement plus John's measurements and the exact angle to which John was sitting in to ease your pretty head with the thought of "why was he still sitting in an upright position". Its possible to "catch air" and come back down in the same position you started off in. But, in order to "catch air" you would have to not be restrained. Here is link to the actual police photos from their investigation of the vehicle. There is one of John's seatbelt, completely untouched and on of Nick's that was cut in order to remove him. Can't miss them.
http://media.myfoxtampabay.com/galleries/Bollea_Crash/
So, for those who said the head rest hit him in the head these pictures clearly show the car doesn't even have them. Try again.
Here are a few questions for everyone, not just for Carol:
Would you agree that getting into a car and not putting your seatbelt on is irresponsible?
Would you agree that getting into a car with someone you know that drove recklessly (in regards to racing) is irresponsible?
Would you agree that getting into a car with someone you knew was drinking or was possible intoxicated in the last few hours irresponsible?
If you said yes, then by moral standard hold John accountable for being irresponsible to himself.
I will say this for that last time and I shall be done with it.........................
Nick BY LAW is responsible for himself and for those riding with him. He should be tried (and he was) and convicted for his negligence and irresponsibility. John does not deserve to be in the position he is in now and it is up to the courts to decide the outcome of the civil suit. However, since the LAW doesn't see John as having any responsibility for his own actions.....................please tell your children that making the same choices as John was irresponsible and that making the right choices can save their lives.

Posted at 11:56PM on Jun 23rd 2008 by bunni

360. I think at this point we should place all of our concern for John. Forget about the selfish Nick Bollea. Say our prayers for John. However, I was wondering if John should pass away. Does the case reopen for vehicular homicide. I sincerely pray this opens stem cell research and as an Army disabled vet. I pray for John and his family. And poop on the Hogans.

Posted at 4:45PM on Jun 24th 2008 by CONCERNED