So That's Why Joe the Plumber Wants a Tax Break

91. First off, I need to say I'm voting (as an independent) for Obama. But with that said, I do not like the way the Dems are attacking Joe the Plumber.

I don't care what his background is. His question is valid and they should treat it with that respect. But I won't base vote on one dig after watching 4 debates and months of watching McCain and Obama on the campaign trail.

Dems need to follow Obama and stick with the issues.

Posted at 6:03PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Heffer

92. After further thought, if Joe was a GOP plant it's perfect that his background isn't perfect. No license, Joe is not his real name, owes taxes, etc...

It baited the Dems in attacking him and lose focus on the issues. Now they look like the A-holes. Swinging the voters who are guided by their emotions and not the issues.

Brilliant move by the GOP, even though I'm still voting for Obama.

Posted at 7:07PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Heffer

93. HELLO PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't about Joe/Sam Plumber........ IT IS ABOUT WHAT BARACK OBAMA SAID TO HIM! PURE SOCIALISM PEOPLE! Who cares if Joe/Sam Plumber is a transexual Wal Mart greeter..... Obama said what he said under his own power because that is what he believes in, a socialist society. WAKE UP! It doesn't matter if Joe is licensed or not, owes back taxes or not, he asked a legitimate question and obama answered it. Obama is dangerous.

Posted at 7:54PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Angelina

94. HAs anyone mentioned that Joe benefits from from Obama's plan more than McCain's. Especially since he doesn't meet the Salary threshhold and doesn't own the business yet. He most likely won't even be effected once he actually owns the business,

So Joe is complaining AGAINST his own best interests.



........and he was a plant.

Posted at 7:57PM on Oct 17th 2008 by ....

95. Let's see...Joe The Plumber owes about $1200.00 in back taxes. Wesley Snipes owes how much? Not to mention all the other High Profile celebs that owe the government a hell of a lot more in back taxes than $1200.00. Just like the Dems to attack an everyday guy for asking "The One" a simple question. Please TMZ, get your head out of your fourth point of contact and stay out of politics. They're not celebrities they're public servants. Unless, of course, you want to maybe change your name to MSNBC.

Posted at 8:33PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee

96. I think Joe the Plumber just didn't understand how income taxes are calculated for businesses - not surprising, since he's been on someone else's payroll. All business-related expenses (including the employee payroll) are deducted from the gross sales to calculate the taxable income. Look at the Schedule C form at www.irs.gov to see how many expenses are deductible when you actually own the business. We're taxed on the profit from the business. A sole proprietor like me just puts the net profit (total income minus business deductions, including a home office deduction for a percentage of house expenses) in a spot on the first page of the 1040. Medical insurance and half the self-employment tax (SE tax is about twice the FICA withheld from Joe's paycheck) are deducted from that figure before we get to the taxable part. There are other possible deductions at this point also. Deductible expenses aren't "free", but as your income level rises - they do make a big dent in taxes you have to pay (considerably reducing their real cost).

This means that if Joe buys a plumbing business, he will have to have sales much, much higher than $250,000 to actually net a profit (taxable income) of $250,000.

Also the feds have intervals of taxable income for different percentages (the tax brackets). For instance, for 2008, these are the federal income tax brackets:

for the first $0 to $8025 -- you pay 10%
for the next $8025 to $32,550, you additionally pay 15% of the amount above $8025
for the next $32,550 to $78,850, you also pay 25% of the amount above $32,550
for the next $78,850 to $164,550, you also pay 28% of the amount above $78,850
for the next $164,550 to $357,700, you also pay 33% of the amount above $164,550
after that - you pay 35% of the amount above $347,700

Remember this is taxable income, after all business deductions.

So when you are in the 25% tax bracket and your taxable income is $35,550 - you are only paying 25% on the amount of your taxable income above $32,550 (that is, on $3000). For the first $32,550 of your income, you're paying what everybody in the 15% bracket pays.

So you can see that proposing 3% more for taxable incomes above $250,000 isn't as big a hit as it sounds, and also should not have much of an effect on small businesses (most of which do not come anywhere near that tax bracket).

This is also why it is very, very unlikely that Joe the Plumber will pay more in taxes under the 3%-above-$250,000 plan.

To be honest, our real tax money drain is military adventures, a huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, and a huge standing army - none of which make us more safe, instead they really are making us less safe every day because such threats and actions generate hatred of us around the world. (For some reason, people take offense when they are bombed and invaded and occupied, when their politicians are bribed by foreigners, etc.) We have lucky geography and have no reason for our paranoia except the obscene profits of the military industry. Every time you pay your federal income tax, 50% to 80% of it is going for war-related purposes (also including the huge national debt, medical costs for veterans for years to come, money spent in other budgets to restore what we have destroyed, hidden money to support terrorist activities by other governments and rebels, etc.). Our government goes into deeper and deeper debt for war and preparations for more war. Our government has been borrowing to keep us in constant war, and our great great great grandchildren will still be paying for our foolishness. A tiny 3% extra for a tiny percentage of the population is truly a drop in this bucket.

Any private individual going deeper and deeper into debt knows that they need to either generate more income or reduce expenses or both. We would have plenty of money for constructive purposes if we would just stop wasting it on the huge military budget (which was doubled in the Reagan Administration and now is well over $400 billion dollars per year, more than all other countries military budgets combined). That's the big leak in our system. We are war addicts, and our addiction is destroying us financially, spiritually, and physically.

Posted at 8:42PM on Oct 17th 2008 by jwoolman

97. For the Dems! I work for my money. I don't collect Welfare or need any assitance from the government. I am NOT a high school graduate and come from a very poor family. However I picked myself up and made something out of my life without having to ask the American Tax Payers for a single dime. Use our tax dollars for something else besides spending 11 to 22 BILLION on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments or 2.2 BILLION dollars a year that is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for the illegals or 2.5 BILLION dollars a year spent on Medicaid for illegals or 12 BILLION dollars a year spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of english or the 3 MILLION dollars a DAY that is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. BTW, 30% of all Federal Prison inmates are illegals.
I'm sick and tired of all the LOW-LIFES that ABUSE the welfare system. "Oh I can't get a job or I will lose my government check" Get your lazy azz off the couch and put down the bong and get a damn job so we TAX PAYERS can sleep better at night knowing it's going to a better cause. It sickens me to know that my hard earned tax dollars go to you losers!
Am I ranting?

Posted at 8:48PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee

98. jwoolman...you're a banker aren't you? lol

Posted at 8:54PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee

99. jwoolman. Umm...I do believe we weren't at war prior to 9/11. But I guess we just had that one coming, right?

Posted at 9:30PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee

100. NOW YOU KNOW!

DON'T YOU DARE ASK OBAMA A QUESTION THAT MAKES HIM LOOK BAD OR YOU WILL BE EXCORIATED IN THE PRESS AND BLOGOSPHERE.

WELCOME TO YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER!

Posted at 9:10PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Orwell

101. 94. jwoolman...you're a banker aren't you? lol

Posted at 8:54PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee


And you seem to be an idiot.

Read what he actually wrote, he's absolutely correct.

Posted at 9:24PM on Oct 17th 2008 by ...

102. Wait! Is he correct on his tax breakdown or is he correct on where all of our money is going? If you're agreeing with the latter than you are the idiot and should take a long walk off of a short pier. Coward!

Posted at 9:31PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Lee

103. Okay.. this is real freakin stupid, and here's why:
1. Joe the Plumber was just a guy who asked a question about Obama's tax plan UNTIL John McCain brought him up in the debates to make a point.
2. Joe the Plumber RECENTLY aligned himself with the Republicans during the primaries, but has been an independent previously.. I'm not saying he was a plant, but the guy was lookin to 'stick it' to Obama on camera for a reason..
3. The media would have left the guy after he got his question answered, IF ONLY McCain hadn't decided to make a spectacle of him with his whole "I'm for all the 'Joe the Plumbers' " rant at the debate. Obviously Joe the Plumber isn't even for Joe the Plumber..
4. He wanted the attention! Did you see how many interviews that guy did after the debates?? Sure, he's REAL upset that he got in the way of talk about real issues... Especially now that we know his name's not Joe, and he's not a plumber. If only these little sideshows were ACTUALLY doing what the Republicans are wanting them to do, then maybe it wouldn't all seem so desperate and ridiculous. Palin's going on SNL? Are you kidding? Hopefully after all this campaign nonsense is done we can get the old John McCain back, and kick that loser Palin back to her beloved AK.

Posted at 9:56PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Rita the Receptionist

104. How does Joe the Plumber’s legitimacy make Obama's answer less socialistic?

Posted at 10:07PM on Oct 17th 2008 by mela

105. “I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

How did we go from raising taxes on the rich to spreading the wealth around?

Posted at 10:11PM on Oct 17th 2008 by Devon