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Conrad Murray Wrongful Death Suit Tossed ... Almost

8/6/2010 7:15 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

Dr. Conrad Murray could be temporarily off the hook in the federal wrongful death lawsuit involving Michael Jackson -- all because Joe Jackson left some key information out of the paperwork.

TMZ has learned a federal judge is taking Jackson and his attorney Brian Oxman to task for failing to specify where two of the defendants -- health clinics where Dr. Murray practiced -- conduct their business.  Without that information the judge can't determine if the federal court has jurisdiction over the case.

The judge has given Jackson one week to amend the complaint or have the suit tossed.

Even if this case is dismissed, Dr. Murray might not be fully in the clear. Jackson has a lot of options -- including refiling the federal suit with Murray as the lone defendant.


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Cherwood and your question re "bolus".A bolus injection basically means that it was given in one shot, not mixed with the liquid
in the bag for the drip.It can be given into a vein and in that case requires a pre injection of lidocaine as it causes considerable burning pain.- A drip may also have a Y shaped construction, the lover leg of Y going into the vein. one of the upper ones to the tube from the bottle or bag containing the fluid for the drip, the other upper arm usually kept plugged or sealed in a way that meds may be given into the same vein as the drip. It would be so much easier to draw this,
it really is a simple arragnement.The possibility of excessive
hydration was of concern and I don´t think this has been addressed.It would help to get some exact knowledge of bodyweight for the last or few of his last days and to make sure the weight at autopsy. I will check on the latter later today.--I can´t say much re the calls to Cherilyn.He knew she would not give him propofol.They may have been veiled or unconsiously disguised calls for help, somehow he trusted her.
Now afterwards it is easy to say,but had she been able to remain close to him and in regular contact that may have given him some emotional support.He only called her when he was in extreme distress and therefore not likely to listen rationally
Did he fire her, did they remain friends on an informal basis?
Now back to the Demerol-I don´t think even murray would have mixed that with propofol.The overload of water may have caused unconsiousness,but as I said more exact figures are needed to
draw any definite conclusions.

1496 days ago


Danger Baby: I haven't been here for a week now - I have been in the hospital. Could you please bring me up-to-date on what is happening with Dr. Death if anything? I believe you said that the preliminary is Aug. 23rd, am I right? Sure have missed reading everyone's posts and keeping up with things. Thank you. By the way, Mimi from Indy has something to tell you via e-mail. Talk to all you soon. God how I have missed everyone on the board! Hope and pray that everything has been going okay for everyone. Love, Peace & Happiness to all

1496 days ago


why do my posts get lost??

1496 days ago


-#417: Hey r.schildt! Just wanted to thank you again for your expert assistance on this. So the IV would've been used for the Prop? So they would've had to use the same IV--one of the upper legs, for the rehydration, correct?
As for his body weight, I think the autopsy had him at 136lbs., but before he died, he actually weighed in at 110 lbs--26 lbs. difference??!! That wold definitely confirm the rehydration theory. I think there's a strong possibility that Murray became distracted or stepped away, or left the house for a short period and came back and found Michael in distress from the rehydration. As we confirmed before, his complaint that evening was dehydration, so Murray would've tried to rehydrate him.....makes sense, until he got sloppy....the question is, how did the other killer/s get involved? There are two schools of thought:
-He called for assistance when Michael was in distress from the rehydration, and it was decided that since he was in coma--which would be costly for everyone involved (Barrack/AEG/Family) and possibly not have the best outcome for Michael anyway, that they should just end it and make it look like an OD...(theory I'm down with)
-Murray stepped away or out and at that time, leaving others who were in the house (Tohme, Muhammad, or Randy J.) to watch Michael, and while Murray was gone, Michael either went into distress from the rehydration, or one or more of the "others" in the house PUT him in distress with the OD of Propofol...
As for Demerol, several articles from right after he passed seemed to indicate Demerol. Not sure if this was because of his past history with it, or if it was true. I know Klein claimed to be giving Michael Demerol in his office for the procedures, but he claimed he gave him quite a bit which is questionable since the Coroner's report did NOT show signs of it in him. For that reason, I tend to think the Demerol story was incorrect, and Klein was simply lying to get a bigger payoff from the Estate--he knew he could because Michael wasn't there to dispute it, all he had to do was provide the fake bills....
As for Cherilyn, I'm not sure what to think. However, I don't think they were close, I think she may have represented a sensitive ear, but noone else on staff besides Amir seemed to know her which tells me she wasn't someone Michael was close to. It was a professional relationship from what I can see...nothing more.
As far as I know, he didn't fire her, he just no longer needed her services once Murray was on board AND he had Kai Chase making the power juices for him....
Still not sure why Michael would've called her, either.
danger, thanks again for your response. Thing is, I thought I remembered Cherilyn saying that he called her a week before he died on CNN, Jane Velez Mitchell, or one of the other many news shows. I know I watched every news show I could for 2 wks after he died, so I was going from memory to a degree.
As for the Randy J./Tohme at Holmsby issue, I see what you mean about the articles as they mention Demerol, but they were from valid news sources, so there was an element of truth in these stories.
Both links I provided have that Demerol nonsense, which I agree causes cred issues because the Coroner didn't find Demerol in his system. But they also talk about Randy J. being there with him--the same thing I remember hearing on several news stations in the 48 hrs. after he passed. More likely the AP had this story? Crazy as it may sound, I think someone did a whitewash to clear that info from the record. It's not as incredulous as it sounds--consider SONY and how they've wiped out many of Michael's music from online......................
No Peace till Justice!

1495 days ago



1495 days ago


Hey Cheerwood, I will only address the dehydation-re-hydration
in this post.It has been overlooked.I will write about the rest another time.
Please read the complete autopsy report on jackson autopsy-report.It has a disclaimer;preliminary and subject to change.To view press on "View the do***ent"down on the left side. I will quote from it;....
detective S.Smith reported on early morning6/25 2010...that 01.00 hrs the descendent placed a call to his primary
physician .. C.M.The descendent complained about dehydration and not being able to sleep.(I think MJ made the call from the Staples center and left for home).Dr. to residence and administered care.(murray has stated that he arrived at residence 1 am and that Michael had called half an hr earlier.
This time-schedule may be correct)so Murray arrives at 1 am and
starts administering care.)The descencent slept for many hrs and Dr.Murray was by his side.At around 12.00(that is 11 hrs later)Dr.Murray found that descendant was not breathing. End of quotes from autopsy report
Now Michael was certainly dehydrated So now to the medical aspects of dehydration and re-hydration. I will quote from a medical text,it is a very complex issue."As the hyponatremia developes there is a decrease in alertness,which progresses through stages of confusion to coma.,often with convulsions....
Replacement with intravenous NaCl in severe cases must be done cautiously because vigorous and rapid correction of severe hyponatremia has been incriminated in the pathogenesis of central pontine(part of brain)myelinosis (CPM)and related brainstem,cerebellar,and cerebral lesions.----then the text goes on to give exact levels of Na+ and exact strengths of levels in infusions to correct this electrolyte imbalance--- So there is a danger of serious brain lesions.---
Now did murray keep track of Michaels weight,bloodpressure ,did he have any clue as to the Na+ levels. I don´t think so because he had no laboratory there. I wrote all this medical stuff to show how irresponsible he was in this respect as well.
Did he do***ent or have any chart at all?--Nowadays it is recommended that dehydration be treated orally by the pt sipping Gator aid.The fact that he had malpracticed all along
in effect prevented any referral to a hospital E:R: as his mal-
practise would have been uncovered.Michael was no case for simple home treatment.Both of his lungs were edematous too.
I know the coroners kept his brain for further study.It is not so easy to find minor but important damages as it is by petscans from live patients. More about other points later.

1495 days ago


P:S: to above post. Michaels weight at autopsy was 136lb, and before 110-112 lb Then subtract what he might have lost during
dance and song exercises June 24 2010. 25 or more pints were
given in the iv´s.He had 3 of them .,one L side of neck,this one removed before transported to hospital, and an iv in each groin (inguinal aereas as its stated in the autopsy report)

1495 days ago


Wow, r.schildt! Thanks so much for your help with this. I will re-read the Autopsy--and you are right, I don't think they actually released the OFFICIAL Autopsy for some reason, which is suspicious in itself. I think they're reasoning is that the LAPD and DA felt it would tip their hand somehow...
SO they completely overlooked the whole dehydration deal, even though it was reported over and over again when Michael first passed that it was the reason he called MUrray over in the first place. Thing is, there's possibly a misconception that Murray was over Michael's house every night to administer Propofol. The only ones who confirmed this were the chefs--Kai Chase, and the guy (name?) who took her position when she was let go the first time--and I'm not sure WHY she was let go the first time, but Michael and the children seemed very fond of her so no clue there.
Both Chefs recalled seeing Murray bring the oxygen tanks down in the morning. Not sure if he would've needed to use it for anything besides having it for the Propofol. Most people ASSUME that's why he had it there but what if he had it there for other reasons??
Again, there are so many questions that require expertise in this case that I'm continually grateful to Supporters like you who know the facts, as opposed to those of us who can only guesstimate. Thing is, I've always had a nose for Investigation/mystery/news, but I don't claim to be an expert in any of these fields--it's not what I do career-wise, so I consider myself more of a Producer/coordinator who relies on the experts to supply me with the details that will resolve this case and bring ALL responsible parties to justice....
No Peace till Justice!!

1494 days ago


Hey Cher,
Just getting back & trying to catch up (although I had a look in on sunday!) with the posts & so I'm sorry to all if I back-track, generalize or possibly re-hash what has been said already.

Just in addition to what r.schildt has said - Diprivan is administered either by continuous infusion or by repeat bolus injections to maintain the depth of anaesthesia that is needed, if it is contineous, then rate of of infusion needed will change probably to 4 to 12 mg to achieve anaesthesia.

So when a drug is administered intra -via Bolus ìe into the vein, this happens very quickly.. when its via IV which would be a slow delivery , so in general terms re Mj, the same IV probably wouldn't been used by murray for the diprivan imho. But who know's where murray's concerned....Enough said

If dehyration issue is what Michael first complained of is correct, that would have been the first to deal with ... but then the amount of benzos as per what murray said he gave..enough to kill / incapacitate anyone over that period of time BTW- I dont believe he wasn't knocked out in some way at that or/some point - be it the over - rehydration & (Coma)or the Benzos imho. After that didn't work, as said, he asked for Diprivan to knock him out??
The Demerol nonsense, you’re right - no further ado, as per the Coroner's report, nonsense.

As for Nurse / nutritionist Cherilyn, IMO as much as she was referred by &/or recommended by whom ever to Mj, I have a hard time getting my head around the fact he asked her for diprivan? That's IMO incredulous. Why would he ask a nurse that tended to his kids? maybe he thought she could be helpful with his health aspects regarding his tour?

I may have serious doubts and questions about her account of the events too, & she may very well have been 'used' to some degree by the 'powers' that be...I'm just not too sure yet she was one of the players...Just IMO.. & only MY thoughts..

--On a side note.. .. On Sunday Phantom posted a great, just released video regarding Mj's time here in Ireland #416 - (I'm sure you have seen it already) on the 'Kids Are Doing Fabulous' thread, & I posted a thanks to Phantom..with a link to more on the story...saw it posted, then Both were in a short while, deleted, its in my inbox. I have my own idea what's the problem.. Feedback appreciated, thanx

1494 days ago


Hey SaraJane! Thanks again for your well thought out response regarding the rehydration/Propofol issue. I'm totally with you that something's not right in Denmark to say the least. And though I'm not trying to implicate anyone who's innocent, I think many of the players in this story--Alberto ALvarez, Kai Chase, Tohme, Muhammad, Randy J.,Cherilyn, Michael Amir and house staff and a few others should be thoroughly questioned as to what they may know or may have seen at Holmsby during the last week of Michael's life as well as 6/25. There's a missing link somewhere and I think this whole dehydration/rehydration issue is one of them, along with verification of who was in the house on 6/25, and how many times Michael actually had Propofol administered to him in the 6 weeks leading up to his death.
If we can get answers to the above questions, I think we'll be well on our way to resolving this case.
Again, thanks to you and all of the others for your assistance in this. I know we're moving onto newer stories, but please stay with us in this fight for justice!!!
No Peace till Justice!!

1493 days ago



1493 days ago


Returning to the re.hydration.Can anybody find a statement of Michaels weight prior to 24/6 2010? I have to do a bit of guesswork here with what is known.The weight in autopsy report 136 lb,(on page 7 of report)Remember that prior to toxicology report they did not think foul play was involved.Murray answered some questions by LAPD detective.-later came different versions.So," the decendent calls his primary physician,Michael and
Murray are both at residence at 01.00 hrs 25/6 2010 and Murray administered care(extent currently unknown,though descendent slept for several hrs and Dr Murray sat at his side.At 12.00 hrs
25/6 2010 (that is 10-11 hrs after treatment started)descendent is not breathing.At 12.26 paramedics found descendent asystolic.( not breathing, no heart activity ie flatlined."
Now considering the weight difference and the time during which
iv fluids were given. Body weights mentioned before this incident 112lb-110lb ,Bodyweight at autopsy 26/6 2010 136 lb.
Take weight to be 112lb- what lost evening p.m. and evening 24/6 , agues 1-2 lb =110.5 lb. Then starts the rehydration and
the weight increases to 136 lb, an increase of 25.5 lb.This spells danger as too vigorous replacement is dangerous and can cause braindamage. Some reports say Michael had been extremely agitatewd ,delusional,irrational etc.( Note:"just because I am paranoid does not mean I am wrong)He was afraid someone would kill him. According to murray he was demanding propofol.Now it is quite likely that he felt totally sick and out of it due to overhydration rather than lack of sleep.Please see wikipedia re water intoxication. I could not find anywhere a very specific description of intoxication w. iv fluids- only that it is very damngerous+poss. braindamage if given too fast.For sure he was OD:ed on it.This would have been a situation for a fast trip to the E.R.Ofcourse this was not something dr.Propofol could consider. 25.5 lb or pints is about 2x the avarage bloodvolume of an adult.

1493 days ago


Hey r.schildt! Great breakdown of this--which is looking more and more like the culprit in what caused Michael to go into distress. But note that Murray NEVER mentioned the rehydration issue, and I wonder if the LAPD are even acknowledging it even though the fact that he had a dehydration problem that day was discussed on many news programs.
I will check to see if I can find anything online that states Michael's weight before 6/24. I know if you base it on the pics of the Parent's anniversary party, or the clip where Michael is coming from Klein's office and they ask if he can still dance, his weight looked to be 115 at the most, which is still 17 lbs. lighter than after he passed.
Thing is, I always wondered why he appeared to be WAY skinnier in the TII scene for "The way you make me feel" where he's teaching Michael Bearden how to play the song. Then if you check him out during the scene for "They don't care about us", which is the one they showed on the news to represent his last rehearsal, he suddenly looks much bigger. I thought maybe it was the camera angles, or the clothes, but I think maybe it's the rehydration issue and he was bigger there. Remember, it was after that rehearsal on 6/24 that he went home and called Murray complaining of not feeling well....
It would be very interesting, to say the least, to hear Murray explain his way out of this rehydration issue....
No Peace till Justice!!

1492 days ago


A P.S. to the429 post, forget the mention of pint, it was a lapse, pint allegedly only applies to beer! Not relevant here.
It should have been lb .The rest should be ok.

1492 days ago


Dr. Murray did not murder anybody.



1492 days ago
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