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Charlie and Denise FACE OFF Over Their Kids

5/11/2011 8:30 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

Charlie Sheen and his ex-wife Denise Richards went to battle at an L.A. lawyer's office yesterday over a custody agreement regarding their kids ... and TMZ has learned the Warlock did NOT emerge victorious.

Charlie Sheen Custody
Sources connected to the negotiation say Charlie wants his daughters Sam and Lola for weekends ... but Denise has had deep concerns about the welfare of the children and under current circumstances, she does not want Charlie to have the kids.

When the two faced off yesterday -- we're told there were "neutral third parties in the room" who agreed  with Denise that Charlie should not have the kids.

We're told the matter is NOT going to go to court ... and right now, Charlie will not get the visits he wants.

169 COMMENTS

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106.

angeleyes    

It would seem obvious to me that the best plan for Charlie would be to take the psych evaluation as it would benefit his case in court as well as visitation with his children. Why he seems adamant not to take this logical step is what I don't understand.
He certainly seems calmer and if he could work out his anger issues with counselling he would likely regain both a job and more family visitation.

1072 days ago
107.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@angeleyes,

Have you considered that the results of the psych eval might work against him and/or might require him to get professional help beyond anger management or counseling? Counselors tend to see people with life stage adjustment issues and the like. Clinical psychologists, clinical social workers, and psychiatrists see clients with disorders.

1072 days ago
108.

angeleyes    

SIM - Yes I have considered that, but as he seems quite adamant that he is perfectly well this would be a way to prove that he is indeed well. On the other hand the best way to get well would be to accept that treatment is necessary and start the process.

I'm making the assumption that he does want to work again and that he does want to spend time with his children.

1072 days ago
109.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@AngelEye,

Agreed. If he is well, prove it and be done with it. If not, accept it and do what it takes to get well.

All reasonable to us. Maybe not to him.

Maybe he is coming from a place of - its no one's effing business, my $55,000 per month entitles me to see my kids, and the ex-wives are just bitches who have stolen my children out of spite and selfishness. Not a stretch to imagine if you follow the comments here or look back at his recent comments.

1072 days ago
110.

angeleyes    

SIM - something that I've been wondering about is Charlie's obvious animosity towards women, treating them more as chattels than persons. Since from reports this started in his teenage years I'm wondering why there has never been any report of his mother advising, supporting or consoling him in regards to the issues with his marriages and divorces and children - Could this be the underlying issue he's battling in regards to the treatment of the women in his life?
I ask you as you seem knowledgeable about mental health issues but of course it would only be a supposition without actual psychiatric evaluations being made. It's merely a passing curiosity on my part where this behavior might have sprung from.

Make no mistake I am not a supporter of his in his present state. Nor do I excuse the vitriol he's been spouting far and wide on many people - I do however wish that those who require mental health interventions get the help they need to lead more satisfying lives.

1072 days ago
111.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@angeleyes,

I may sometimes have an informed opinion, and I do try to state clearly when I am uninformed and/or just guessing, but the bottom line is its just my opinions here.

I've wondered the same thing, too - what was the nature of his relationship with his mother. The only mention of Janet that I've seen in relation to Charlie was the email that she recently sent to Donald Trump. Did you see that story?

1072 days ago
112.

ksis    

@angeleyes

Would you agree to a psych evaluation if the whole bunch of people that never even met you, like strangers on the street (which is exactly who we all are for Charlie) were telling you to do it "for your own and your family's good"? I seriously doubt that.
He would show that he cares about the opinions of people who judge him based on TMZ reports, and there is no reason that he SHOULD, imo.

1072 days ago
113.

angeleyes    

SIM - Yes I can see that attitude throughout the "tour" and other comments - I see it as the "ego" talking - which when strong emotions are involved certainly seems to get in the way for many or most of us from time to time -
It is certainly natural for a father to want to spend time with his children and to my mind commendable if he is able to do so without besmirching the mother in any way. Both parents have their own issues to deal with and considering the many factors including celebrity, media exposure and drugs, this is more complex than just the trauma of divorce and child visitation, which in itself is stressful enough. IMO

1072 days ago
114.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@angeleyes,

I found the story. Janet didn't send the email to Donald or at least not JUST Donald. She it sent to friends asking them if there was a way to stop Donald from talking about Charlie. I'll reserve my take on the email for now. I'd like to get your impression first, if you don't mind.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/03/19/032411-gossip-sheens-mom-1-2/

1072 days ago
115.

Butt Lovin Bear 401    

I really can't see him being anything but a loser when he challenges her when it comes to their kids or anything else for that matter. I think he's proven time & time again that he is truly the whacko she has claimed he is right along

1072 days ago
116.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@angeleyes,

I agree. However, technically, it would be "ego defenses". The ego itself - according to the originator of the theory - is simply a psychological structure that mediates between the ID and the Super Ego. A healthy ego - or good ego strength - is a positive thing. Its those run a muck defenses that become problematic. Sorta a pet peeve of mine how the term "ego" is so commonly misused, so sometimes I comment :-).

1072 days ago
117.

angeleyes    

SIM - No I didn't see any mention of the email from Janet to Donald Trump - do you have a link to share? Thx!

Ksis - Hmmmm....interesting question - I'd have to give that one some more thought - since we are commenting on a gossip column what we say is our opinion based on what we read, or perhaps hear from Charlie's own mouth. So if a lot of strangers heard me say vile things about my boss, my marriage partner and others should I perhaps listen to their advise and get mental health issues looked into - Initially I would likely disagree ksis - and likely resent the interference in my affairs - BUT inevitably as I assessed the damage my actions had taken and looked to ways to achieve my goals in life I would certainly give a psychiatric evaluation as an avenue that I would try.

1072 days ago
118.

ksis    

But apparently Charlie doesn't see his actions that way and at this point he feels his life has taken a good turn. He stopped drinking and taking drugs, he is fighting ti stay in touch with his kids, he is exploring new career paths. In my opinion there is no reason for him to think he should give a flying fig about what naysayers think.

1072 days ago
119.

Mairzee_dotes    

real deal wrote:
"At this point, I just think it's time he faces reality and bites the bullet. If the method he's using isn't working and it isn't if he can't get a positive evaluation with his clean urines to spend a few weekends with his kids; then it's time to find something that does work. No one stays "clean" that long and still looks that awful - where there's smoke there's fire.

AA and the Sober Valley Lodge are not the only games in town. Imo, deliverance comes from the Lord. But regardless of where he looks, I do hope he does find something that is going to allow him to overcome the mess he's in and be a father to his children. It's certainly possible. Those kids are entitled to it and he owes them that."


You have great insite. Yours was one of the kindest yet
"right-on" posts I have read in days.

1072 days ago
120.

angeleyes    

SIM - thx for the link - so I've read Janet's reported statements - my initial thought is "Well, so that's where Charlie gets the attitude that it's always someone else's fault for his actions"
I can understand her desire to defend her son - that's natural to me but placing blame on others is not always justified.

Perhaps her better way to deal with issues would be to understand that there were two adults equally to blame in this decision and that Donald Trump's statement has little value for anyone as he's not involved in any way. (grumble, grumble.....under her breath - oh that miserable Donald T. always trying to get media exposure at someone else's expense)

What I find most surprising is this being the issue she has decided to comment on - which is immaterial to the present and rather a slight by Donald on the past which is unchangeable.

1072 days ago
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