TMZ

Our TV Shows

Got a Tip?

Call TMZ at (888) 847-9869 or Click Here

Charlie and Denise FACE OFF Over Their Kids

5/11/2011 8:30 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

Charlie Sheen and his ex-wife Denise Richards went to battle at an L.A. lawyer's office yesterday over a custody agreement regarding their kids ... and TMZ has learned the Warlock did NOT emerge victorious.

Charlie Sheen Custody
Sources connected to the negotiation say Charlie wants his daughters Sam and Lola for weekends ... but Denise has had deep concerns about the welfare of the children and under current circumstances, she does not want Charlie to have the kids.

When the two faced off yesterday -- we're told there were "neutral third parties in the room" who agreed  with Denise that Charlie should not have the kids.

We're told the matter is NOT going to go to court ... and right now, Charlie will not get the visits he wants.

169 COMMENTS

No Avatar
91.

jacksonfive210    

real deal
brown, the letter states that WB asked for his doctor's diagnosis, treatment, prognosis and a certification to return to work. That's the same thing as an evaluation and it seems clear that he did not give them. With $1.8M per episode hanging in the balance, one would think he would provide it...if he could.

The fact that he failed to provide WB with an evaluation for $1.8M per episode, seems to make it unlikely that he gave one to Brooke. Who knows though? But today's result with Denise seems to indicate that he doesn't have one.

And you're right there are other factors. But it seems drugs and his mental condition are the biggest issues he faces.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The evaluation had more to do with his drug use then his psych evaultion I think they do go hand and hand though. I know wb wanted him to go to rehab charlie didnt want to do rehab because he says it doesnt work for him and he hates AA ONLY charlie really knows if he didnt want to go to rehab because of the psych evaulation. most people started thinking charlie was really crazy after those interviews he did. my point is the custody agreement 3 months ago brooke said charlie had to take a psych exam before he could see his kids and he got to spend the weekend with them this weekend so that makes it seem like he took one and thats my only proff he has tooken one because brooke would not let charlie see them without it. I havent heard denise say charlie needs to take a psych evaulation Ive only heard her say she doesnt want the kids to spend time with charlie since all the things he's been doing and saying about her. let me ask you something dont you think if charlie was using dont you think there would of been a report about it I mean someone would of leaked the information out for money. plus he's taking random drug test and we would find out if he failed or refused to take one just like we found out brooke refused to take one.

1197 days ago
92.

jacksonfive210    

lillrose74
Thats a good point I mean I dont see why denise couldnt get one of those 3rd party members that was at the court or someone they both agree on to supervise over charlie with the girls. If I was charlie I wouldnt being paying 55 grand a month for kids I cant even see If denise doesnt want charlie in their lives then dont take his money too. I mean denise kind of works she cant support those kids by her self.

1197 days ago
93.

jacksonfive210    

I mean charlie sheen was willing to buy both of his ex wives houses by his house to be closer to his kids I feel some of this recent actions have showed hes trying to get in their lives.

1197 days ago
94.

Nancy    

The child support payments have nothing to do with the custody arrangements and vice versa. The child support payments are what they agreed on (and Charlie AGREED TO) when they divorced. The custody and visitation arrangements had to have been a part of the divorce settlement - and it would APPEAR that Charlie is trying to renegotiate the visitation part of that.

Being relatively new to this whole thing, I am not clear on what his visitation arrangement is with Denise's girls. Whatever it is, though, you can bet his badmouthing Denise in his "shows" certainly didn't make Denise any more willing to CHANGE it for him.

Srsly, regardless of how much the kids are getting for support, if I was Denise, and my ex called me a whore, and had the crowds at his shows shout "F u c k Denise," I don't think I'd be too willing to agree to ANYTHING he's asking for right now. Let's face it, the woman is only human, and that HAD to hurt.

1197 days ago
95.

Jack DaCarup    

I agree with you Nancy 110%. Words can hurt!

1197 days ago
96.

Nancy    

PS - In most custody and visitation cases, you DO NOT get to withhold paying support if you don't see your kids. Just because you can't see them does NOT mean that you don't support them anyway... that's the way the law works.

If there is an agreement in place that says you are permitted to see your kids, then you can petition the court if you aren't allowed to see them. YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY SUPPORT.

1197 days ago
97.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@Nancy,

Denise and Charlie renegotiated their custody agreement following the Aspen incident when he was in and out of jail and rehab and facing the possibility of serious jail time. Denise got full time, no visitation for Charlie. She was moving towards relaxing and renegotiating the agreement again when the Plaza Hotel incident happened. Then, the major meltdown where she felt that he couldn't take care of himself let alone small children. I think you get the idea.

1197 days ago
98.

jacksonfive210    

nancy
I wasnt trying to say that he should stop paying because he's not seeing them all I was stating is that if I was forking over 55k I would want more time with my kids and I feel since denise doesnt want charlie to see his kids and it kind of seems she doesnt really want him in the girls lives and if that is the case she shouldnt take his money too. I dont blame her for taking the money Im sure I would too but its a little hyportical. I also told you charlie shouldnt have more visitation rights right now. I also know just because you dont see your kids it doesnt means you shouldnt pay for child support thats how you end up in jail. My point was If I was forking over that much money a month I would want alittle bit more time with this kids, and charlie also seems to want to get back into his kids lives by trying to buy his ex wives houses right by his so the kids could all be together and closer to him, now that he's not working or touring.

1197 days ago
99.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@Real Deal,

IMO, the certification of fitness - and the refusal - are the linch pin. He may be stonewalling on a court ordered psych eval as well. His lawyers would have mechanisms for that.

1197 days ago
100.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

bbrown,

What Real Deal is telling you about the WB letter, request for certification of fitness, and the rest of it is exactly what I have been telling you. IMO, Real Deal has got it right, completely.

1197 days ago
101.

jacksonfive210    

Spring in michigan
I understand and your right the certification is for fitness and im sure while he was in rehab he would have a psych test but my point was we dont know if charlie didnt want to go to rehab because he was going to have a psych test or because he really doesnt like AA. My other point was is that brooke said charlie couldnt see the boys till he got the test and he spent the weekend with the boys so I felt like he must of took it but of course its just speculation.

1197 days ago
102.

Muppet    

So glad he doesn't get to see them on over night visits. Imagine what he would try to teach them! This is a man that thinks it's funny to teach babies to say rehab! He's only seeking attention for himself, this has nothing to do with what's good for his children. I'm glad he lost!
Who's he going to try to use next for publicity? His grown daughter that's married? Maybe he'd like to go all out and try to "make up" the years of being an absent drugged out father to her?

1197 days ago
103.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

bbrown,

You have a point about the reasons for refusal - and it could have been both reasons. About Brooke and visitation, he could be saying that he will comply but finding ways to put it off. I'm also not convinced that the agreement actually stipulates the eval - although it was talked about. IMO, they BOTH need a full assessment.

1197 days ago
104.

real deal    

I think Spring in MI is right. I think an eval was discussed with Brooke, but I don't think it actually made it into the agreement, largely because he could have easily insisted that she have one too and she likely would have failed with flying colors. So I think the middle ground was the urine tests.

No doubt, all of Charlie's problems stem from those awful decisions he made in January and February regarding WB wanting him to go to rehab and, when he went the SVL route, asked for the work certification. Instead, he went his own way with the lodge, the interviews, the goddesses, Sheen's Korner, the tour, blah, blah, blah. And he was still cracked out of his mind with his brain and nervous system trying to get back in balance.

Charlie definitely had a point about rehab and AA; but he also had 1.8M reasons per episode to go, regardless of what he thought about it. He could have gone and then used whatever method he wanted to use. But I think it was much more about Charlie wanting to keep the party going at that point, than his deeply held beliefs on the sure-fire method for overcoming addiction. And his decisions were being reinforced by people around him that could care less about him or his kids.

At this point, I just think it's time he faces reality and bites the bullet. If the method he's using isn't working and it isn't if he can't get a positive evaluation with his clean urines to spend a few weekends with his kids; then it's time to find something that does work. No one stays "clean" that long and still looks that awful - where there's smoke there's fire.

AA and the Sober Valley Lodge are not the only games in town. Imo, deliverance comes from the Lord. But regardless of where he looks, I do hope he does find something that is going to allow him to overcome the mess he's in and be a father to his children. It's certainly possible. Those kids are entitled to it and he owes them that.

1197 days ago
105.

Autumn_in_Michigan    

@Real Deal,

You are right about his also insisting that Brooke have an eval. The courts can and do order just one parent to get an eval but that decision is based on only one parent actually presenting with issues. Since Brooke has the known drug issue, I would bet that if she insisted so would he and the court would order the same for each. That was my thinking as well.

I agree with you that Charlie had a point about AA. But, WB was not insisting on AA or any 12 step related program. There are lots of other types of rehab some of which do have a better success rate than AA. IMO, the whole AA thing from Charlie was another smoke screen, with a bit of truth as well. He really dislikes AA, which is understandable if you look at his history in relation to AA, Chuck Lorre, etc.

But he is not that stupid nor ignorant not to know that he had other options. WB supported the SVL approach until he fired his sobriety coach. So, he has a hidden agenda for not wanting to be in a professional rehab of ANY kind and for not wanting a psych eval, which would have been part of the certification of fitness process. All of which points toward he is hiding something. That "something" could be an ongoing drug habit or it could be something else or both. And, evidently he thinks he is so clever and the public is so dumb that no one can see what he is doing.

I'll have to think about your "keep the party going" point of view, though. Does make sense. He definitely wasn't thinking clearly at that point. He is surrounded by questionable influences/people. But there are other explanations as well.

I don't know that he is still using. His poor appearance could be due to other factors such as poor health or anorexia type behavior. Most of us have been saying - have a sandwich Charlie - and meanwhile he evidently runs 5 miles a day keeping the weight burned off. And consider all the bare chest displays in the shows, So, my impression is that he thinks he looks good. Some people just think he is delusional.

Facing reality at this point would be helpful. I'm just not convinced that he is actually capable of it. It may not be a willful disregard but a symptom of deeper psychological problems beyond substance abuse/addiction. Which brings us back to the psych eval and getting professional help.

1197 days ago
Previous 15 Comments | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

Around The Web